From: "Al & Ginia Schaufelberger" <schauf@islc.net>
Subject: Loft delivery from a Skyraider
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:21:36 -0800

Our aircraft were AD-4Bs--straight AD-4s with a few extras for the nuclear capability. We trained in loft bombing with Mk-76 practice bombs; they weighed approx 5 lbs, were approx 2 feet long, and had a small charge in the tail that would put out a puff of white smoke on impact. They were carried on the wing stations ("rocket rails"), and as our training target was quite close to NAS Atlantic City we could carry 12 of the things, which meant a hop gave you 12 goofy loops. Delivery of a shape called for a run-in speed of 275 knots TAS; for training, to ease the load on the R3350, we used 250 knots. Going with a shape, we pulled the rocket rails, thereby gaining a (theoretical) one knot per rail.

To solve the problem of getting from IP to release point we had a few aids. Knowing the distance from IP to the pull-up point, we could turn that into (no wind) time, (275 kts=465 ft/sec). As we could not see straight down through the fuselage, we determined an "IP" by watching it flash past two rods stuck into the port side of the fuselage close to the cockpit. You lined your eye up with the rods, and squeezed the pickle (on the stick) to start the timer (the time was adjusted by knowing the angle subtended by your eye and your run-in height --I remember 50 ft; may have been 100 ft). You motored on (still holding the pickle down), and when a light came on you hauled back, trying for 4.0 (4.5?) gs in 2 seconds. When the angle was reached the shape/Mk 76 was released, and you were on your own. The release angle was determined by an ungodly box that sat between your feet with two dials, each about 4 inches in diameter, with numbers around their perimeter; these numbers had no relation to anything we knew in the real world--such as air speed, altitude, etc. We picked the settings for these dials from one of the OPDEVFOR manuals, cranked them in before takeoff, and were surprised (and delighted) to find that they worked.

Compensating for wind was not very precise, but could be done for range wind by adjusting the run-in time (assuming you knew what the wind was going to be at the target); deflection was handled by running slightly upwind from IP to target, but we didn't use anything but a vertical pull-up. We didn't have vertical or horizontal needles--just a gyro and a g-meter. The gyros were good to about 80 degrees--then they went Able Sugar, and you did the best you could down the other side until they settled down.

We didn't feel we needed more instrumentation. After all, on our twelve hr butt-busters we not only did not have a fuel transfer system we didn't have a low fuel pressure warning light--you waited for a fluctuation in fuel presure to show up on the gage before switching tanks. And we flew night single plane missions from the carriers without a low frequency homer, let alone a TACAN or VHF homer.

Hope this helps--it was fun to relive those good days. PS: We could really hit with that system.

SHOES

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:24:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Spad in the Med
From: rufusnd@juno.com (Ralph N. Davis)

Reread your message and questions again this afternoon, and realized I didn't answer one. Was probably doing my usual rambling.......As to the "real thing" and flying back to the ship at 200 feet (which is doubtful that it would have been there) through Turkey. I don't remember specifically, but don't think we would have low leveled. If my memory serves me correctly, I think we were to have flown "home"..Forrestal...... at 1000 feet or of course, over the mountains. Not between them like on the way to the target. Besides, who was to shoot back at you in Turkey?.....Romania, Ukraine, Russia and Yugoslavia, yes. Italy, France, Switzerland, Greece, and Sicily, no. You probably know better than I who might be shooting at us. One of my fears was flying through someone elses nuclear explosion. That would have ruined the entire day!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards, RND

Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:23:01 -0800
Subject: Re: Spad in the Med
From: rufusnd@juno.com (Ralph N. Davis)

Just pulled up your latest......The bridge in training.....Am sure it was on the border (close to) of the Ukraine, but actually was still in Turkey. I was so naive, or uninformed at the time, I used to call it the Russian Border. Didn't even know of a place called Ukraine. Once again, what a great way to see the countryside. We'd change who was leading the way every so often. The other guy would be stepped up a little bit, maybe a 100 feet, and behind the leader. Helped keep from getting lost. We [had] maps all over the cockpit. Plus your flight plan on fnee board cards. If you went past the time to turn at a checkpoint and you didn't see the checkpoint, you'd better turn anyway, or you'd really get lost when flying that low.

x Your "good grief" comment was right on. A most ridiculos plan. Actually, the grass strips for refueling is what started us thinking that we were on a one way mission.

Regards again, Ralph Davis

From: "Tom Beard" <tbeard@olympus.net>
Subject: Re: Loft delivery from a Skyraider
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:03:34 -0800

You sure got into an interesting subject. I have to stretch my mind back forty years to answer your questions but because the training was so intense and the flights so fascinating, much is still retained. Interesting because in the intervening years I've flown about 7,000 hours in as many as 30 different aircraft. Some I cannot even remember how to get into. Yet, the AD, I still remember the locations of many of the switches and gages. I think I could get into one and fly it today. I can't say this about many others.

If I had pictures of the cockpit, perhaps I could remember more. Is it possible that you could send me JPEG photos of the cockpit you have. Remember, too, the cockpit I remember is 1957-58 era. I would expect changes by the time of the 1967 NATOPS.

Tom

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:37:59 -0500
From: Joe Shea <70273.1430@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: LABS

The Hell Hole is an old Navy slang term applied to various unpleasant places. On the Spad it was on the center line I believe just aft of the engine oil cooler cowl flap. It was armored when the armor was installed on the aircraft. You might know it as the Avionics Compartment. It is where the radios etc were bolted into racks along with other electronic/electric devices. I think it got its name in part due to the heavy coating of semi-consumed engine oil often found on the entrance panel.

Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:47:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Medium Angle Loft Bombing
From: rufusnd@juno.com (Ralph N. Davis)

I am sure we operated in the Eastern Med off CVA 59 (Forrestal). For a fact, off the coast of Lebanon, Lybia and Turkey. At times we flew low level flights (200') all over Turkey. Actually the Air Group (10) lost at least a couple airplanes, AD-5s, when they flew into the cliffs of Turkey when making landfall from the ship. Of course we lost the crews also.

The longest flight I ever flew in my life was for 11.4 hours and never got above 200' until back orbiting the ship waiting for a recovery time. We, Lcdr. R.G.Coleman and my self, were launched pre-dawn with cat shots, from South of Crete, made land fall there, around the island, then over to Greece, around Greece to the Yugoslav border over to the Dardenells and on up thru the Bospurous, around Istanbul and along the coast of the Black Sea to the Ukraine border where we had a target, a bridge. We both made "run ins" on the bridge and with the following "idiot loop". Then almost a direct course back to the ship. We sure saw the country side and enjoyed the hell out of the flight. Only problem was we had to be helped out of the cockpit of our AD-6s' after our recovery back aboard the ship because of the long flight. Just looked this up in my log book(s) and it occurred on 8 Oct 1958. Right at 40 years ago.

Another flight, of about 8 hours, was again from South of Crete, over to Italy and some way or another made our way up to the Po Valley and Balongna, Italy where we had a target, Same senario of idiot loop, then back over to the East coast of Italy and all the way down the coast to Sicily and the ship. We went down the beaches of Italy at about 20' and scared the hell out of all sorts of people in or out of swimming suits. This flight was with another Ltjg., J.A. Robbins. Have thought about it many times because of the young Marine in the A-6 that hit the ski lift cable and killed those 20 or so people in Italy. But for the grace of God, "there so go I". We all flew low as hell in those days and there were no "canned" low level,or canned "Sandblower" routes. But we were lucky and no innocent people were killed.

Your 850nm combat radius was not a strech. Actually it was greater. Internally the AD held 2280#s of fuel. Then you tie on 2, 300 gallon drop tanks, for another 3600 #s (1800 per tank) for a total fuel load of 5880 lbs. of fuel. Yes, we flew these missions at about 170 knots IAS. 1600 or 1700 RPM and manifold pressure to sustain the 170 kts. I can't remember the fuel burn, but my best guess is an average of about 6 lbs per minute. So, that would be an endurance of about 15 hours. Take off/ landing and reserve would reduce that somewhat so a 12 hour, low level flight with run in and idiot loop WAS a reality. My guess of an effective combat radius is about 1000 miles. We were limited from hanging 3-300 gallon drop tanks on the airplane because you'd run out of oil before running out of gas. Of course all of this was with no ordnance.